🎙️🙏🏫 Episode 41 — Casey Groves: Faith, Friendship, and What’s Really Behind the Pulpit
Chopping It Up with Keith Saarloos · Released April 03, 2026 · Santa Ynez Valley, California
About this conversation
Casey Groves | Faith, Doubt, and Real Conversations About Church
Some people talk about faith.
Some people avoid it.
And some people wrestle with it—honestly.
This episode is about the wrestle.
I sat down with my friend Casey Groves for a conversation that didn’t start in a church—it started over coffee, years ago, with questions, hesitation, and a healthy amount of skepticism.
This isn’t a sermon.
It’s a real conversation.
• ☕ Friendship Before Faith
Six years of coffee, conversation, and trust—getting to know the person before the pastor.
• 🎸 From Iowa to California
A small-town kid, death metal, guitars, and a completely unexpected turn into ministry.
• 🧭 The Moment Everything Changed
Walking away from one path, stepping into the unknown, and discovering something bigger than a plan.
• ❓ Why People Stay Away from Church
Hurt, hypocrisy, perception—and the difference between God and the people who represent Him.
• 🏥 Courtroom vs. Hospital
Why church is often misunderstood—and what it’s actually supposed to be when it’s working.
• 🧠 Questions Over Answers
Why the best conversations don’t start with preaching—they start with asking the right questions.
• ❤️ Faith in a Comfortable World
What happens when people don’t feel the need for God—and what it takes to rediscover it.
• 🤝 Love One Another
The simplest idea. The hardest to live. The one that changes everything when it’s real.
This conversation is about doubt, trust, friendship, and what it looks like to go from keeping your distance… to walking through the door.
This isn’t about religion.
It’s about relationship.
From Keith’s original Valley archive
The following material is preserved from the original episode post. Existing transcript text is an archive copy and may contain transcription errors.
Episode 41: Casey Groves, Faith, Doubt, Church Hurt, and Real Conversations About God
In Episode 41 of Chopping It Up with Keith Saarloos, Keith sits down with his friend Casey Groves, Senior Pastor of Valley Christian Fellowship in the Santa Ynez Valley, for an honest conversation about faith, doubt, church, friendship, skepticism, and what it means to wrestle with God in real life.
This episode was recorded for Easter weekend, but it is not a sermon.
It is a real conversation between two friends.
Keith and Casey talk about how they first met at Good Seed Coffee in Solvang, how a shared interest in off-road vehicles turned into years of Wednesday morning coffee, and how trust was built slowly long before Keith ever walked through the doors of Casey’s church.
The conversation explores why people stay away from church, the difference between God and the flawed people who sometimes represent Him poorly, the pain of church hurt, the importance of asking honest questions, and why church is often misunderstood as a courtroom when it is meant to be a hospital.
Casey shares his own story of growing up in rural Iowa, playing guitar, loving death metal, planning a life in music, moving unexpectedly to California, studying the Bible, and discovering a call to ministry he never planned for.
More than anything, this episode is about relationship.
Relationship before religion.
Questions before answers.
Friendship before trust.
And the simple, difficult, world-changing command to love one another.
Listen to Episode 41 :https://open.spotify.com/episode/6C3QuKppu9CQJ8QQqj4VPh
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Summery
Full Episode Summary
In Episode 41 of Chopping It Up with Keith Saarloos, Keith sits down with Casey Groves, Senior Pastor of Valley Christian Fellowship in the Santa Ynez Valley, for one of the most personal, honest, and spiritually direct conversations in the Chopping It Up archive.
This episode was recorded around Easter weekend, between Good Friday and Easter Sunday, but the conversation does not feel like a formal sermon or religious program. Instead, it feels like what it actually is: two friends sitting down to talk about faith, doubt, trust, pain, church, friendship, Jesus, and what it looks like when someone slowly moves from skepticism to relationship.
Valley Christian Fellowship:
Valley Christian Fellowship team page:
https://www.vcfconnect.org/meet-our-team
Valley Christian Fellowship teachings:
https://www.vcfconnect.org/teachings
The episode begins with Keith explaining his own history with faith. For many years, he describes himself as a “CEO Christian,” meaning Christmas and Easter Only. Church was something he attended out of obligation, habit, or a sense that he was supposed to check a box. But over time, his view of faith began to change.
That change did not begin in a church building.
It began over coffee.
Keith and Casey first met at Good Seed Coffee in Solvang after Casey noticed Keith’s 1971 Pinzgauer parked nearby. Casey was into off-road vehicles, Keith was driving one of the strangest and coolest vehicles in town, and the two started talking. They exchanged numbers, and when Keith asked how to save Casey’s contact, Casey told him he could put “Pastor.”
Keith’s reaction was immediate.
He walked away.
Not because Casey had done anything wrong, but because Keith had known enough pastors, enough church people, and enough religious pain to know he was not ready for that conversation. He was hurting. He had lost his father. He was wrestling with grief, anger, distrust, and the deep questions that come after loss. He did not want a pastor shining a bright light into places he was not ready to expose.
Good Seed Coffee Boutique:
https://goodseedcoffeeboutique.com/
Good Seed Coffee Solvang:
https://goodseedcoffee.square.site/
Over time, though, Keith and Casey kept meeting for coffee. Week after week, Wednesday after Wednesday, friendship came before faith. Casey did not force every conversation into a religious pitch. He did not try to make every moment a sermon. He simply got to know Keith.
This becomes one of the central themes of the episode: relationship comes before trust.
Keith explains that people do not earn the right to speak into the deepest parts of someone’s life simply by holding a title. Friendship, consistency, patience, honesty, and time matter. Casey became Keith’s friend long before he became Keith’s pastor.
The conversation then shifts into Casey’s personal story.
Casey grew up in a small town in rural Iowa with only a few hundred people. As a kid, he found a classical guitar in a closet and began teaching himself to play. From the age of 10 to 17, he played every day. Music became his world. He joined bands, wrote songs, and eventually became interested in metal, thrash metal, and death metal.
Casey’s plan was not ministry.
His plan was music.
He wanted to go to audio engineering school, produce bands, make records, and stay close to the music world. Faith was always part of his life, but becoming a full-time pastor was not the plan. He grew up in church, had strong Bible teachers, and saw examples of people who lived what they preached, but ministry still felt like something for someone else.
Then, at 19, everything changed.
Casey heard Francis Chan speak at a youth conference and learned about a Bible school being started in Southern California. At the time, Casey was already signed up for audio engineering school. His student ID was ready. His roommate was lined up. His path seemed set.
But something shifted.
He felt compelled to go to Bible school instead. His parents supported the decision, and within weeks he moved from rural Iowa to California. The move was a shock: mountains, ocean, Los Angeles traffic, art, film, music, creativity, and an entirely different world than the one he had known.
Francis Chan:
https://crazychurch.com/
Ephesians 2:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%202&version=NIV
Casey then shares the moment that changed his spiritual life. While studying the book of Ephesians, he was struck by the contrast between Ephesians 1, which describes God’s love, adoption, grace, redemption, and inheritance, and Ephesians 2, which begins by saying that human beings are dead in their trespasses and sins.
For Casey, the phrase “but God” became life-altering.
He realized that salvation was not about his own effort, intelligence, goodness, or ability to clean himself up. It was about God reaching down in mercy and making someone alive who could not make himself alive.
Keith then plays the role of skeptic, not to attack faith, but to voice what many listeners may be thinking.
In a comfortable, technologically advanced world, why do people feel like they need God?
Food can be ordered to the door. Weather can be forecast. Problems can often be solved with money, technology, convenience, medicine, or distraction. Many people are insulated from need. Others are in deep pain but hide it behind busyness, entertainment, politics, social media, comfort, or control.
Keith asks the question many people quietly carry:
What happens when someone is hurting, lonely, skeptical, or spiritually empty, but does not know how to admit it?
Casey’s answer begins with Jesus.
He explains that part of his role as a pastor is helping people move past the imaginary version of Jesus they carry in their minds and meet the real Jesus found in Scripture. Not the cloud-floating cartoon Jesus. Not the religious stereotype. Not the distorted version created by people who used faith poorly. The real Jesus.
Sermon on the Mount:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205&version=NIV
John 3:16-17:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%203%3A16-17&version=NIV
Casey talks about how Jesus often taught through stories and questions. He explains that Jesus was asked many questions in the Gospels, but often responded with better questions rather than direct answers. That matters because many people are asking the wrong question, or asking from a place of pain, fear, pride, or misunderstanding.
Casey quotes a professor who told him, “The right answer to the wrong question is the wrong answer.”
That idea becomes another major theme in the episode.
Good pastors, good friends, and good spiritual conversations do not always begin with answers. They begin with questions. They begin with listening. They begin with understanding the person before trying to correct the person.
The conversation then turns to why people stay away from church.
Keith and Casey talk about church hurt, hypocrisy, judgment, perception, and disappointment. Casey explains that many people imagine church as a courtroom, a place where they will be judged, condemned, exposed, and sentenced.
But when church is working the way it is supposed to work, it is not a courtroom.
It is a hospital.
That may be the most powerful image in the episode.
Casey explains that the church is a place for sick people to get well. It is not a place where perfect people gather to look down on everyone else. It is a place where spiritually unhealthy people come to receive help, healing, truth, community, and grace.
He compares it to someone walking into a gym and criticizing the out-of-shape people inside. The whole point of the gym is that people go there to get healthy. The whole point of a hospital is that sick people go there to be treated.
That, Casey says, is what church is meant to be.
Keith then reflects on his own journey. He admits that he was distrustful. He had wounds. He had reasons to stay away. He was not ready to be judged. But after years of watching Casey, looking for holes, waiting for hypocrisy, and testing whether the friendship was real, Keith saw consistency.
He saw someone who lived what he believed.
He saw someone who loved people.
He saw a church that was not a courtroom, but a place for healing.
The episode also highlights the Wednesday morning men’s group that meets at Mattie’s Tavern, where Keith, Casey, and others gather for conversation, Scripture, honesty, and friendship. Keith describes watching men’s lives genuinely change through those conversations, not in a performative way, but in a deep and undeniable way.
Mattie’s Tavern:
https://aubergeresorts.com/matteis-tavern/
The Inn at Mattei’s Tavern:
https://aubergeresorts.com/matteis-tavern/
Valley Christian Fellowship YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@valleychristianfellowship
Keith and Casey close the episode by returning to one of the simplest and hardest commands in Christianity: love one another.
Keith reflects on what the Santa Ynez Valley could become if people loved their neighbors, looked out for other people’s children, cared for older women like they care for their own mothers, helped one another, and lived as if community actually mattered.
The conversation ends with an Easter invitation, but the invitation is broader than one holiday. It is an invitation to walk through the door. To ask questions. To admit pain. To find a church. To stop confusing God with the failures of people. To begin again.
This episode is about faith, but it is not religious performance.
It is about doubt, but it is not cynicism.
It is about church, but it is not institutional marketing.
It is about relationship.
The relationship between friends.
The relationship between a hurting person and a patient pastor.
The relationship between questions and faith.
The relationship between a broken world and a God who does not come to condemn it, but to save it.
Listen to Episode 41:
https://saarloosandsons.com/sscopod
Saarloos & Sons:
Valley Christian Fellowship:
Casey Groves and Valley Christian Fellowship Team:
https://www.vcfconnect.org/meet-our-team
Valley Christian Fellowship Teachings:
https://www.vcfconnect.org/teachings
Valley Christian Fellowship YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@valleychristianfellowship
Valley Christian Fellowship Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/ValleyChristianFellowshipSYV/
Good Seed Coffee Boutique:
https://goodseedcoffeeboutique.com/
Good Seed Coffee Solvang Ordering Page:
https://goodseedcoffee.square.site/
Mattie’s Tavern:
https://aubergeresorts.com/matteis-tavern/
The Inn at Mattei’s Tavern:
https://aubergeresorts.com/matteis-tavern/
Santa Ynez Valley Presbyterian Church:
Francis Chan:
https://crazychurch.com/
Ephesians 2:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%202&version=NIV
John 3:16-17:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%203%3A16-17&version=NIV
Matthew 5, Sermon on the Mount:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205&version=NIV
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Topics Covered
Topics Covered
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Casey Groves
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Pastor Casey Groves
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Valley Christian Fellowship
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Santa Ynez Valley Christian Fellowship
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Valley Christian Fellowship Santa Ynez
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Santa Ynez Valley churches
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Faith and doubt
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Church hurt
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Why people avoid church
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Easter episode
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Good Friday
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Easter Sunday
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Christmas and Easter Christians
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CEO Christian
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Friendship before faith
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Relationship before religion
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Coffee conversations
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Good Seed Coffee
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Solvang coffee shop
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Keith Saarloos
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Chopping It Up with Keith Saarloos
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Santa Ynez Valley podcast
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Faith podcast
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Christian podcast
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Local church podcast
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People Behind the Pulpit
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Pastor friendship
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Trust and faith
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Skepticism about church
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Grief and faith
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Losing a father
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Spiritual pain
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Spiritual wounds
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Healing from church hurt
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Church as hospital
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Church as courtroom
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Spiritual poverty
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Blessed are the poor in spirit
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Sermon on the Mount
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Jesus and questions
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Jesus and parables
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Jesus as storyteller
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Real Jesus vs imaginary Jesus
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Asking better questions
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Questions over answers
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John 3:16
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John 3:17
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For God so loved the world
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God did not send his Son to condemn the world
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Ephesians 2
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But God
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Dead in trespasses and sins
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Grace and mercy
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Salvation by grace
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Christian faith
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Christian relationship
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Faith in a comfortable world
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Technology and spiritual hunger
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DoorDash and modern comfort
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Social media and loneliness
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Political faith
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Financial security
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Insulation from need
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Spiritual emptiness
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Silent suffering
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Pastoral calling
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Vocational ministry
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From Iowa to California
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Rural Iowa
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Death metal and faith
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Guitar and ministry
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Audio engineering school
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Francis Chan
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Bible school
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Divine providence
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Moving to California
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Simi Valley
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Youth conference
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Bible study
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Gospel conversations
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Spiritual transformation
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Men’s group
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Wednesday morning men’s group
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Mattie’s Tavern men’s group
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Love one another
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Love your neighbor
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Santa Ynez Valley community
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Local churches
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Easter invitation
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Presbyterian Church Santa Ynez Valley
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Valley Christian Fellowship Easter
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Church in Santa Ynez
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Church in Solvang
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Christian community
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Church and hypocrisy
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Pastors and authenticity
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Real conversations about God
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Honest faith conversations
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Questions about God
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Relationship with Jesus
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Christian discipleship
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Healing and grace
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Faith after grief
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Faith after skepticism
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Faith and friendship
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Spiritual formation
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Bible teaching
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Biblical teaching
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Santa Ynez Valley Christian Academy
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Local faith community
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Crazy Country 105.9
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Independent radio
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Local radio
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Chopping It Up Episode 41
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FAQ
Frequently Asked Questions
Who is Casey Groves?
Casey Groves is the Senior Pastor of Valley Christian Fellowship in the Santa Ynez Valley. He is a pastor, Bible teacher, musician, husband, father, and friend of Keith Saarloos.
Valley Christian Fellowship team page:
https://www.vcfconnect.org/meet-our-team
What is Valley Christian Fellowship?
Valley Christian Fellowship is a Christian church in the Santa Ynez Valley. The church gathers for worship, biblical teaching, fellowship, discipleship, service, and missions.
Valley Christian Fellowship:
Where does Valley Christian Fellowship meet?
Valley Christian Fellowship meets at Santa Ynez Valley Christian Academy, located at 891 N. Refugio Road, Santa Ynez, California.
Valley Christian Fellowship:
What is Episode 41 of Chopping It Up about?
Episode 41 is a conversation between Keith Saarloos and Casey Groves about faith, doubt, friendship, church hurt, Easter, Jesus, spiritual questions, and why church is meant to be a hospital rather than a courtroom.
Why did Keith Saarloos want Casey Groves on Chopping It Up?
Keith wanted Casey on the show because he wanted listeners to know the person behind the pulpit. Keith and Casey had built a real friendship over years of coffee and conversation before Keith ever attended Casey’s church.
How did Keith Saarloos and Casey Groves meet?
Keith and Casey met at Good Seed Coffee in Solvang after Casey noticed Keith’s 1971 Pinzgauer. Their shared interest in off-road vehicles started a conversation that eventually became a long friendship.
Good Seed Coffee Boutique:
https://goodseedcoffeeboutique.com/
What is Good Seed Coffee?
Good Seed Coffee Boutique is a coffee shop and roastery in Solvang, California. In this episode, Good Seed is where Keith Saarloos and Casey Groves first met and where their friendship began.
Good Seed Coffee Boutique:
https://goodseedcoffeeboutique.com/
Why was Keith Saarloos skeptical of pastors?
Keith explains that he had experienced church hurt and distrust. He was grieving the loss of his father and was not ready for a pastor to bring his pain into the open. Over time, friendship with Casey helped rebuild trust.
What does “CEO Christian” mean?
In the episode, Keith uses “CEO Christian” to mean “Christmas and Easter Only.” It describes someone who attends church mainly on major holidays rather than as part of a regular rhythm of faith.
What is “The People Behind the Pulpit”?
“The People Behind the Pulpit” is the idea Keith introduces in this episode: conversations with pastors as real people, not just voices behind a church podium. The goal is to understand the person before the title.
What is Casey Groves’s background?
Casey Groves grew up in a small town in rural Iowa. He taught himself guitar, loved metal and death metal, planned to study audio engineering, and unexpectedly moved to California after feeling called to attend Bible school.
Did Casey Groves always want to be a pastor?
No. Casey originally planned to work in music and audio engineering. He expected faith to remain part of his life but did not plan on full-time vocational ministry.
What changed Casey Groves’s life?
Casey describes studying Ephesians 2 and being struck by the phrase “but God.” He realized that salvation was not about his own effort but about God’s mercy and grace making spiritually dead people alive in Christ.
Ephesians 2:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%202&version=NIV
What does Ephesians 2 mean?
Ephesians 2 teaches that human beings are spiritually dead in sin but that God, because of His mercy and love, makes people alive in Christ by grace. In this episode, Casey explains how that passage transformed his understanding of faith.
Why do people stay away from church?
Keith and Casey discuss several reasons people stay away from church, including hurt, hypocrisy, distrust, fear of judgment, bad experiences with religious leaders, and the perception that church is a courtroom rather than a hospital.
What does Casey Groves mean when he says church is a hospital, not a courtroom?
Casey explains that many people think church is a place where they will be judged and condemned. But when church is healthy, it is a place where spiritually wounded and unhealthy people come to receive truth, grace, healing, and community.
Is church only for people who have it all together?
No. One of the main messages of the episode is that church is not for perfect people. It is for people who are hurting, searching, struggling, healing, growing, and learning how to follow Jesus.
What does “blessed are the poor in spirit” mean?
“Blessed are the poor in spirit” comes from Jesus’s Sermon on the Mount. Casey explains that it means recognizing spiritual poverty — the truth that people cannot fill or save themselves apart from God.
Matthew 5:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205&version=NIV
Why does Casey Groves talk about questions more than answers?
Casey explains that Jesus often responded to questions by asking deeper questions. Good spiritual conversations often begin not with preaching, but with listening, understanding, and asking the right questions.
What does Casey mean by the “real Jesus” versus the “imaginary Jesus”?
Casey says many people carry a version of Jesus shaped by stereotypes, bad experiences, or cultural assumptions. His goal as a pastor is to help people meet the real Jesus revealed in Scripture.
What is John 3:16?
John 3:16 is one of the most famous verses in the Bible. It says that God loved the world so much that He gave His only Son, so that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16-17:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%203%3A16-17&version=NIV
Why does John 3:17 matter?
John 3:17 says God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. Keith and Casey discuss this verse as central to understanding Jesus’s mission.
What does this episode say about faith in a comfortable world?
Keith and Casey discuss how modern comfort, technology, convenience, money, and distraction can make people feel like they do not need God. But beneath that comfort, many people still carry pain, loneliness, fear, and spiritual hunger.
What does the episode say about church hurt?
The episode acknowledges that many people have been hurt by churches or pastors. Casey and Keith distinguish between God and the failures of people, while also taking seriously the pain that bad religious experiences can cause.
What is the Wednesday morning men’s group?
Keith and Casey talk about a Wednesday morning men’s group that meets at Mattie’s Tavern. It is a place for honest conversation, Scripture, friendship, and spiritual growth.
Mattie’s Tavern:
https://aubergeresorts.com/matteis-tavern/
What is the main message of this episode?
The main message is that faith is not about pretending to have everything together. It is about relationship, honesty, healing, questions, grace, and learning to love one another as Christ loved us.
Is this episode only for Christians?
No. This episode is especially valuable for people who are skeptical, hurt, unsure, curious, or distant from church. It is a conversation for anyone wrestling with faith, doubt, pain, or the possibility of walking through the door again.
Why is this episode important for Easter?
This episode was recorded around Easter and points listeners toward the meaning behind the holiday: God’s love, Christ’s death and resurrection, forgiveness, healing, and the invitation to begin again.
What churches are mentioned in the episode?
The episode mentions Valley Christian Fellowship, Santa Ynez Valley Presbyterian Church, Coastlands, The Ranch Church, and other churches in the Santa Ynez Valley.
Valley Christian Fellowship:
Santa Ynez Valley Presbyterian Church:
Where can I watch or hear Casey Groves teach?
You can find Valley Christian Fellowship teachings and sermons here:
https://www.vcfconnect.org/teachings
Valley Christian Fellowship YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@valleychristianfellowship
Where can I listen to Episode 41 with Casey Groves?
You can listen to Episode 41 of Chopping It Up with Keith Saarloos here:
PASTE SPOTIFY EPISODE LINK HERE
Where can I find more Chopping It Up episodes?
You can find more episodes of Chopping It Up with Keith Saarloos here:
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THE Transcript
Casey Groves, Pastor Casey Groves, Valley Christian Fellowship, Santa Ynez Valley Christian Fellowship, Valley Christian Fellowship Santa Ynez, Santa Ynez Valley churches, church in Santa Ynez, church in Solvang, Easter church Santa Ynez Valley, Good Seed Coffee, Good Seed Coffee Solvang, Keith Saarloos, Chopping It Up with Keith Saarloos, faith and doubt, church hurt, why people avoid church, church as hospital not courtroom, Christian faith podcast, faith podcast, Easter podcast, Christian podcast California, Santa Ynez Valley podcast, Jesus and questions, Ephesians 2, John 3:16, John 3:17, Sermon on the Mount, blessed are the poor in spirit, relationship before religion, friendship before faith, pastors and authenticity, rural Iowa pastor, death metal pastor, guitar and ministry, Francis Chan, Bible school California, real Jesus, imaginary Jesus, spiritual healing, spiritual poverty, Christian community, Mattie’s Tavern men’s group, Santa Ynez Valley men’s group, love one another, church hurt recovery, faith after grief, faith after doubt, Valley Christian Fellowship teachings, Valley Christian Fellowship YouTube, Crazy Country 105.9, independent radio, Chopping It Up Episode 41.
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Saarloos + Sons archive host Keith Saarloos. Context photograph; not a portrait of the guest or a photograph of this recording.
